Building workforce development programs that actually work

Ted Wind: Welcome to Beyond the Ribbon Cut, the podcast for chamber leaders. I'm your host, Ted Wind from Diagonal for Chambers, and I'm super excited to be joined by Clint Knight, Director of Workforce Development at the Richland Area Chamber and Economic Development in Ohio. Clint, thanks so much for joining us today.

Clint Knight: I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to talking to you.

Ted Wind: Awesome, yeah. to get things started, would love if you could give our chamber listeners at home the quick version of the Richland area chamber, the size and scale of your organization, communities you serve, and kind of the role the chamber plays across the region.

Clint Knight: Certainly. the Richland Area Chamber of Economic Development, we're centered in in just north central Ohio, so we're halfway between Columbus and Cleveland. Richland is actually the county, Richland County, Ohio, and technically we are located in Mansfield, known for the Ohio State Reformatory where Shawshank Redemption was filmed. And we serve all of the communities within the county and in Richland County, all of the villages that surround Mansfield. and we have a little over a thousand members and that's that's a little bit about us. We are we're also we're also combined ri a chamber in economic development.

Ted Wind: Love it.

Got it, got it. And how would you describe kind of the business community there? We talk a lot of chambers and everybody's community is a little bit different. It's a lot of very large corporations, a good mix of small businesses. What does that look like?

Clint Knight: Yeah, so I when you look at our business makeup, obviously we we have some large manufacturers, which is what Central Ohio one of the things we're known for. we have a little over ten thousand manufacturing employees and that's a mixture of size of business. So you got those top ten employers that are, you know, three, four, five hundred or more, and then the bulk of that is is smaller businesses, you know, that are that are employing forty five, fifty, seventy five people. and then our other sector is healthcare, which is runs us a close second as far as employment. we have multiple large healthcare systems in the area. And then you know you have all the other things that that are are important to the economy, the the tourism and the and the retail and the construction trades and all of those.

Ted Wind: Awesome, I love that. And we're gonna touch back on kind of the way that that economic development piece is tied into your chamber a little bit later in the episode. But before we dive into that and get into the chamber work, I'd love if you could share a little bit about your background and how you got involved with chamber leadership.

Clint Knight: So i I work in workforce development, you know, and I came directly out of the staffing world. So there's a much longer story that led to that. I'm actually a musician by trade. My degree is in music, which led to a necessity of working in the restaurant restaurant business, which led to training and HR and all of those things, and and that's how I landed in in workforce development. and my staffing background in the region allowed me to foster a lot of those relationships that I already needed to do the work that I do on workforce development. So I had a little bit of a leg up when I came into the chamber world because I had done a lot of business relationships already. And that's how I got into what we call workforce development now.

Ted Wind: Love it, love it. And one of the questions I love to ask chamber leaders just around that is what would you say your why is for being a chamber leader? Was there a moment you realized like this is the kind of work I I love doing or something that really clicked?

Clint Knight: Yeah, I I I had gained a real interest in careers and helping people find that track, develop their skills and find what they wanna do. I honestly when I got into chamber work, like a lot of us, I didn't understand the full breadth of the work. and since I've gotten into the chamber work, you know, the idea of moving the community. uh and the resources that the chambers bring is is what I'm really passionate about now. So you know, my part in that isn't workforce development, but I'm part of a bigger team that that focuses on that type of work.

Ted Wind: Got it. Love it. Love it. Now, one of the things when we speak with a lot of chamber leaders, workforce development does get brought up pretty frequently. Some chambers we speak to already have a robust workforce development program in place, while others are kind of just getting started. Could you maybe walk through for some of those chambers that are just, you know, getting started on their workforce development program? What does that actually mean to a chamber and to the Richland area chamber in particular?

Clint Knight: It's a very big question. and because the reason for that is but it looks different in every single community. there's so many relationships, systems, and opportunities to work in workforce development that it you have to really find out where you can move the needle based on the character of your chamber, if that makes any sense. and it I mean it it means a lot to our business relationships.

Because in order to do business, in order for our businesses to sustain and expand, we have to ensure that they have the employees and the talent and the skills in our region to do the work. And that's really the focus of what we that's that's our kind of our laser focus is to make sure that we're working to move the needle in that space. Do we have the skills to maintain the economy that exists in our region right now?

Ted Wind: 100%. And maybe getting a little bit more tactical when like a business comes to you and says, Hey, you know, we're coming to the Richland area chamber. We need help with some workforce-related initiative. What does that typically mean when they ask that? What are they usually asking for in your experience?

Clint Knight: A lot of times a business will come and say, I I need employees. I just need employees. and that's where my being an artist by by trade, I enjoy the creativity of that, right? You know, for example, we not long ago a company said I need welders and I said well all the welders are employed. You know, it you you have to go out and either poach from other employers or you're gonna need to train welders. I said, let me ask you this do you have you need 10 welders, do you have 10 employees that come to work every day that have been there and you know, let me find a resource to help you upskill those people to be the welders that you need. So a lot of times it's we you know we're we're just we're looking to grow and it's helping identify how do we get there. You know be use that creativity and identify the resources to help them get where they need to be.

Ted Wind: I love that. And I I think that's something that you just alluded to there. That upskilling piece is something I think when a lot of chambers think about workforce, it can be very narrow that it's just job fairs, hiring events, like those are really the only places we can help. But I think like that upskilling component is really, really important. Are there other kind of components that you would add into that as like maybe things that aren't typically thought of with workforce development, but something that the chamber is able to help local businesses with?

Clint Knight: I think I think chambers are positioned in in a unique way to understand The language that a business is speaking. And this is a nationwide conversation. This is not new, but you know, there's a language barrier or gap between education, K through 12 education specifically, and employers. an employer can't say, I just need people, and expect K through 12 educational system to respond to that because you need a lot more information. And we sit in a unique opportunity to hear from those employers.

Narrow all that information down and help go to the education and say, all right, let's let's you and I work together on the other end of this to get creative on ways that we can provide a pipeline of talent and then help the students understand what the opportunities are in the region. So there's a lot to it. That education piece is an egg we've been trying to crack for a very long time. Not just chambers, but everybody involved in the system.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And when thinking about that entire system, where does the chamber fit compared with, like you just mentioned, schools, workforce boards, governments, and individual employers? Where do you see yourself kind of fitting in that puzzle?

Clint Knight: So we We're in a unique situation, I believe, because we're we're kind of a mid-sized chamber in a in a s in a rural a micropolitan, right? Or maybe a little less than a micropolitan. So I am able to cover a lot of ground with a with not a lot of people. Does that make sense? So I I can maintain those relationships. I I'm the director of our workforce our our WIOA board. So we are the contracted administrator of the WIOA board. I maintain lots of relationships. and education education. So I've had a unique situation where I have the capacity to do that in a smaller region. But when you get in a larger metro area, then that's where the chamber really has to determine what do we have the capacity to do, what do we have existing relationships to do, and what is the most what what's the most effective space for us to work in. I hope that did that did I kind of did that help answer your question?

Ted Wind: Yeah, no, that that it that is very helpful. I and I think it's something just a lot of chambers have questions about is like, you know, sometimes it can be you don't want to step on too many toes, right, as the chamber, right? You're trying to be friends with everybody in the community, especially these larger organizations, right? But it's very important to kind of figure out, you know, where is the right place for us as a chamber to kind of fit in and and wedge in in this in this space. So I I think that makes sense. another piece I I'd love to kind of touch on is just, you know, how with The Richland area chamber, economic development is a major piece of that, right? And how does the chamber's economic development work connect with your workforce development role?

Clint Knight: So my role was originally created as part of the economic development team. There were two entities that existed, the Richland Area Chamber, and then another economic development entity called the Richland Community Development Group, which still exists, but we work together as one entity at this point. So economic development being brought in closer to the chamber allows us to really help in those. expansion and retention efforts and gives us that on the economic development side it gives us a direct access to the influent influential decision makers in the businesses and it's kind of a trusted relationship right so they already are chamber members and then we come along and say hey by the way you know you might be here for group insurance benefits but we also have this entity that we can help you out with we also have these resources

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. And that that piece, that communication aspect of these resources that you're providing is really crucial. Another thing I love about your chamber is just how front and center you've made workforce development to the chamber as a whole. You know, you go to your homepage, it's smack dab right there. It's got its own nav bar.

What made Richland decide that workforce development needed to be part of the chamber's kind of core value proposition?

Clint Knight: The need. I you know, I we when we do we we do focus on our existing businesses and their opportunity to six expand and sustain what they're doing, but we're also doing business attraction. So all of those business attraction leads that we follow or the things that land in our lap, you know, they want to make sure they have brick and mortar, the greenfield, but they, you know, the primary question is, am I going to be able to have the people to do the business here? and so that workforce development is a major factor, the major factor in economic development. So it is it's key. That's a question that we want to answer. and be honest about from the very beginning. Here's what's available to you and here's what we're doing to make sure that the future of your business here is sustainable and you can develop it and maintain.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And as far as communicating the value of that workforce development program, how are you going about that process? Is it just in kind of your weekly newsletter, monthly newsletter? Are you, you know, telling members when they sign up right away? What does that communication process look like?

Clint Knight: Yeah, there's there's a lot of storytelling. involved in that and ensuring that we're giving examples real life of examples of how we helped other businesses that are applicable to all of the businesses that might look at our community or already be in our community. You know so you know tying if it's a five employee business or a five hundred employee business we've had some sort of program in all levels of that and here's how you know here's an example of somebody that we did a cross town or a company that came here that of a relatable size. So making sure that we're doing that storytelling to give those specific success stories and examples of how we can help other people.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that. And I think storytelling's two-sided, right? You have your storytelling to your members, but then also in the chamber world, of course, you have storytelling to our boards. How do you go about getting board buy-in for this kind of workforce work, especially when the outcomes might take years or maybe even, you know, decades to show?

Clint Knight: Yeah, I mean that's kind of the elephant in the room when you're when you're considering like are we are we gonna invest in and get in this workforce development space, if we invest the the financial resources, the time resources, the talent, how do we measure that success? What does that look like? yeah, that's you know coming to that agreement with your board on what is the measurement of of moving the needle. What needle are you moving?

And being able to show the output and show the results is the key to maintaining that board buy-in and helping your board understand. You know, it's just like me when I came on as an employee, I had to learn a lot and I had to do a lot of exploration in order to answer that question and in order to communicate to my board what what is it that you're actually doing? What what are you doing every day, right? so yeah, that's that's the key to it is is setting measurable outcomes and making sure they're attainable. You know, for example, changing the unemployment number is not an attainable measurement of workforce development. it you know one person or a team of five people can't be expected to change that number. What you can show is how much did we invest in upskilling, how many employees did we train, how many people got hired at a job fair that we held, how many of our students are going straight from graduation into a track, a training track that directly relates to business in the community, and how many of those students are going directly to work in our region. So those are the types of things that that you want to look at and and hope that you can move the needle in.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. And that's super helpful, I think, for the chamber leaders listening too, is just those metrics are so important, knowing which metrics to focus on. You know, you mentioned a couple there. Are there any others you left out that you think are valuable for that conversation with the board or of all right, here's what we're measuring, right? It's not the unemployment rate. It is it's something a little bit more tangible.

Clint Knight: Yeah, I mean there's other aspects of it when you when it comes to workforce development. You know, talent attraction is is a component of workforce development. and being able to track that, be involved in it, develop a campaign and measure if it's successful or not, that is a you know, that's a a number or a an output that you you can go back and report to you know to your board and show that you're moving the needle. So, you know, that's a that's almost a completely different Different piece of work, you know, and initiative because that that involves lots of other things. But you know, it we talk about social media interactions, how many people are you told me that you just looked at my website and you were impressed at how how forefront workforce development is. I cannot wait to tell the president of my chamber that and my board that. those are the kind of things that we're we're looking for.

Ted Wind: Hundred percent. I love those answers, especially because of like, you know, how tactical that is for chamber leaders listening. I wanna bring it back to one of the topics you said earlier, and another thing that I think your chamber is doing a great job of making front and center. is one of the first things I found out about your chamber when I was doing research research before this episode.

Your student facing programs, you put a lot of resources into those. Could you share a little bit more about what you've learned about getting employers to participate in these kind of student facing workforce programs and maybe share a little bit more about some of the programs you're running?

Clint Knight: Yeah, that's that was from the very beginning, that was something I was very passionate about. I I said by I was a trade by trade I'm a musician. My intent was to be an educator, I was gonna be a high school band director, so I'm I'm very passionate about education. I went very heavy from day one in building those relationships and education. and what I learned is to in order to get sustainable and long-term engagement from employers, you have to help them understand the abs the value in it. You have to be able to point to results. On the other side of that, when I say results, you have to show them that they're getting the employees. They're getting the talent that they need and that it that education is responding because they do. K through twelve education is it right now is ex is responding to employer needs in a in a great way across the nation. And and you have to show them those results. But the other thing is you have to consider the time that you're asking them to invest. And a lot of times, you know, they're they're busy running a business. So you have to go to them. You have to take programs to them.

You know, in Ohio we have a program called Teacher Bootcamp, where we, and this is not unique to Ohio, they're doing it in other places in the country, but we're taking groups of teachers into the business and showing them what the work is and and they're going back and putting that in their curriculum in the classroom and they're able to use those branded examples. I saw this at company X, Y, and Z, and it's right down the road. You know, did you know that this company makes headlights that go in the Ford F. 150, did you know that the meat that you buy at the grocery store is wrapped in plastic that was made right down the road from you? So though I those are a couple of specific real-life examples. So that's one program thing that that we've done. One of the most fun for me, one things that I've enjoyed the most was a program we call Employ Me Palooza, where we flipped the job fair model, we gave the students the tables.

And the entire per there are two reasons for this. We wanted to put the student on the spot and show that they could communicate. I heard a lot of employers say that these students don't know how to communicate, they stare at their phones all the time. Personally, I disagree. I have a lot of I have four students in my house and I interact. I I coach baseball, softball, and flag football. So I I think they're better at communicating than employers think they are. So we gave them the spotlight, right? And we invited the employers to come meet them. selling themselves. That's one thing that event did. The other thing it did was it's a two-hour event and I put together a roster of what's going to be there. It doesn't list the student names but it lists their grade level, what they're interested in, what their work availability is, and you know what their skills are. And I send that out ahead of time and I tell the employers, I say look at it and determine how much time you want to allot to this event. It's 11 to 1, you come for 30 minutes, you come for a whole two hours.

You know, being cognizant of the fact that their time is valuable too, and saying, hey, I'm valuing your time and I want to set this up so it's efficient for you.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And s the students in this reverse job fair model, they're behind the booths. Do they set up like a whole like bunch of banners and stuff about themselves? Or is it just kind of they're waiting for people to come up? How do you prepare students to talk about themselves, their interests, you know, what they're looking for?

Clint Knight: So that started with the faculty, right? Whether it's the career coach or a physics teacher or or an athletic coach, whoever's working with the students. So we identify who's working with those students to prepare for this event, and we s and we give them a kind of a a standard set. Like you you here's what we want you to do. You have to be able to be able to talk about yourself. You have to have the traditional resume. you want to develop that elevator pitch so that you can tell your story. we encourage you to Bring things that you can pick up and and hold, you know, kind of like that you know, the old the the teddy bear thing, you know, like we want you to bring your football helmet or something that you welded or a piece of art that you made, something that you can use to tell your story and create that comfort for you so that you can drive those experiences forward. some of them bring the the traditional poster board, the trifold poster board. Some of them I we've had students bring a TV and create with a PowerPoint that rotates. They get super creative and they bring all kinds of things. It's it's exciting to see, you know, how unique each sixteen, seventeen, eight eighteen year old is and how their brain works and what what helps them talk about themselves. And they've they've done a really good job of it. It's it's been fun to watch it over the last five years.

Ted Wind: That's incredible. And what have employees told you after participating in that kind of event? What's been the reaction?

Clint Knight: It's it's always a buzz. I I've I it's a buzz of energy. It's always been positive. you know, I just like everything. This is just like any other job fair, it's just the other way. Like you're gonna have students that go above and beyond and you're gonna have students that do the bare minimum. And that that's that's what it is what it is, right? And and the employers appreciate all of that because it's it's real life. And they even I've I've had employers come and talk to a student that did not list accounting as their interest or insurance as their interest and end up hiring them. And I've had students go into broadcasting that did not think they were gonna go into broadcasting. it's it's it's an adventure for everyone involved and it's it's been a ton of fun.

Ted Wind: That's incredible. And I I think those types of energizing programs sponsored by the chamber, built by the chamber, are so so important, especially when you're talking about engaging not just the young students, but also the employers. I think that's one question I'd have for you is just What advice would you give to a chamber that says, you know, our employers keep saying they want workforce help? They keep coming to us saying that over and over again, but then when we put on events like this, they're not showing up.

Clint Knight: You have to yeah, you're gonna have to cater think about what is going to engage your business community. That's that's one thing. I y get the team together, find the most creative person in the building or the room or the office and say, What am I not thinking of? that's one of the things that we that our team is really good at. I we've most of us have been together for nearly a decade now. and the the name of that event, Employ Me Palooza, came from our Director of Economic Development. It wasn't my name. in and just, you know Talk through all of that stuff because you have every you have people who talk about membership and people who talk about marketing and people who do those direct business relationships and and identify what is going to get that buy-in from your business community. Another piece that I would say is y you may have to narrow it down. Make it just healthcare. make it you may have to make it nursing, you may have to make it welding, you might have to make it Software development. I I d you know, I you just you may have to get really narrow depending on what the size of what the demand of your community is. but that's a that's a way to get to test out a scenario. If you scale it down, you know, I've had as many as fifty six to s fifty I think fifty six or sixty students is the top that we've had at a at in that event. But if if you have ten, that's okay. Do it anyway. Right? If it don't think, you know, it doesn't have to be this massive grand event. What it has to be is effective. That is where you get business response is when it's effective because that's what they're focused on, right? They're focused on time, dollars and cents, and and how they're moving things forward.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. I think that's something a lot of chamber leaders struggle with with workforce development is you see these events like these massive job fairs, and they're like, I I don't even know where to start, especially for smaller chambers. For a chamber leader listening at home who wants to start a workforce development program, where should they start? What's the first step that you would have them do?

Clint Knight: Evaluate capacity. Now, right? Is it you have to define who's gonna do it first. Are you gonna hire somebody or is it gonna be somebody in your building? And that is gonna set the tone for the entire scope of work. that's that's the first thing. The second thing from a board perspective is is it in your strategic plan? Where does it fit in your strategic plan? Because that is where the board is gonna start asking questions. We said we're gonna do these things over the next five years, and and now as if is it the is it the chamber executive that's initiating this idea. So where does it fit in the strategic plan if it's not there and and you want to you're in the middle of a strategic plan period, find a place to plug it in and then go from there. Evaluate after those couple of years and then where does it fit going into the next two or three or five years, however you you build those plans.

I I think it's there's an opportunity to really dive into the deep end, but you have to find out like what you know where where are we gonna what do we have the capacity to do, how do we gotta make sure we can swim and swim really well, because otherwise you're not gonna get that sustainable and long term buy-in from the board or your business community.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. As far as like a small initiative, like a real program or event that a chamber could run, any ideas for that that a you know a small chamber could launch without necessarily having a dedicated workforce director?

Clint Knight: Yeah, I d job fairs are a great opportunity. I and and I wouldn't you know, these you have They're called job fairs, but make it a career fair. Make it make find talk to your hospitals or talk to your ag programs or talk to the business community, find out what it is they need. talk to the education system. If you well I'm I'm assuming it's K through twelve, right? Talk to the education system if you're looking at my example of Employ Me Palooza and find out what your interest is. A l a lot of communities, a lot of K through twelve programs are using some sort of interest program. program where they're where they're surveying what students are interested in and what their aptitude is, find out what that is, and then narrow it down and create that career opportunity around those two. Right? I've identified these three or four needs in the business community and I know that these schools have this pocket of students who are interested in this specific thing and try to marry those. So don't don't take this large, you know, don't cast the net super wide at first. Be real narrow and test the waters that way and see if you can get get those winds and and identify what you're good at, right? We tried this and this what went well and it and this is what didn't go well and then and then improve from there.

Ted Wind: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. That's incredible and I think incredibly useful advice for the chambers at home. Last question I have for you, Clint, and question we like to ask all the chamber leaders on the show, zooming out for the folks at home listening. What's one piece of advice you'd give to other chamber leaders listening in right now?

Clint Knight: Specifically when it comes to to to workforce development is from the beginning you understand that you're not a staffing agency. That's not your role in workforce development. That's what it that is not what it is. there are people who do that very well in your community probably and let them do that, right? So when it comes to workforce development, that that's something I had to learn because I came out of that world, right? you have to zoom out and you have to figure out where the where those opportunities are. and and number two is is listen to your business community on what they need. Your members will tell you what they need and when you don't feel like you get a a the very a very clear question, like I said earlier, when they say we just need people, that's not the answer. Don't stop there. Yeah, what how many and and what skills and and what kind, right? What kind of and and secondly, their employees, they're they're individuals, right? They're we have to understand that we're looking for the right kind of people to fit in in into those businesses. So just being that aware of it's it's not you you have to really have a laser focus. So that's I guess that's the answer to your question. Whatever you do when you start Make sure you have a laser focus and then expand from there.

Ted Wind: I love that. I love that. And Clint, I I think today this was incredibly helpful for folks listening at home. Really appreciate the tactical answers you gave around workforce development programs and just Being a chamber leader in general. Before we wrap up here, I wanna make sure that we plug your upcoming ACCE session because it lines up perfectly, obviously, with everything we talked about today. The session is called Does Workforce Development Belong at My Chamber? Can you give chamber listeners a quick preview of what you'll be covering and who should make sure they're there in the room?

Clint Knight: Yeah, I we actually we we kind of we talked about some of the stuff, but we're gonna get really into this this session's gonna be more of a of a workshop. It's a seventy-five minute session. So we're gonna talk about some of these things, capacity, and understanding your role in your community as it pertains to workforce development. And whether you have an existing program or you're considering it, please come be a part of it. on that Monday and we're we're gonna give you a chance to talk to your peers. We're gonna do some tablework. So don't come expecting to listen to me talk. You you just did that for thirty minutes. and and you know put we're gonna put it put in some work and send you home with some things and some ideas to to determine w how you could be most effective in your home communities.

Ted Wind: Love it, love it. And definitely, if you're listening in, sounds like an incredible event. You should definitely go if you're in New Orleans. So thank you again so much for coming on the show today, Clint. Obviously, workforce development is such a clear example of how chambers are going above and beyond just basic events and visibility into real business problem solving. If you want to learn more about the Richland area chamber and the work Clint and the amazing team over there are doing, head to the link in the description below. can see more about their Employ Me Palooza as well as just learn more about their chamber as a whole. And that's all for today. Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you on the next episode.