An operating system for your chamber

Bob Thomas: The value of the chamber there is through building community in other ways and harnessing that vision to improve just the overall quality of life. I would say some tips and tricks that they're looking for there are just what are the tools that are available to them through software or AI or new ways to engage people when people aren't available to be engaged. And unfortunately there's no silver bullet. Some of them are age-old. you just got to pick up the phone and rally the troops. And then others are more innovative. So through things like podcasts or creating new digital engagement tools, those are all strategies for us to do the same thing, which is just to build community.

Ted Wind: Hi, I'm Ted and I build software for chambers of commerce. For the past decade, chamber tools were all built the same way. One clunky system for every chamber. But if I've learned one thing, it's that no two chambers are alike. That's why on this show, we go beyond the ribbon cut with top chamber leaders to share the unique programs, processes, and what makes their chamber work, and to give you new ideas you can take back to your chamber. This is Beyond the Ribbon Cut. Hello and welcome back to Beyond the Ribbon Cut, the podcast for chamber leaders.

I'm your host Ted Wind from Diagonal for Chambers and my guest today is Bob Thomas, chief operating officer and integrator at the Michigan Chamber of Commerce. Bob, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.

Bob Thomas: Thanks for having me, Ted.

Ted Wind: Thank you so much for hopping on. Now Bob, before we get into the operations side of things, for listeners outside the state, could you give us a little feel for the Michigan Chamber and the broader business community that you guys serve?

Bob Thomas: Sure. So the Michigan Chamber of Commerce is the state chamber for our state for Michigan and our primary value proposition is to be the undeniable voice for business of all shapes, sizes, industries. We represent about 3,500 members from all 83 counties, all the major industries that make up our state's economic fabric. And our job is to make sure their voices are heard with the legislature and administration and that we create opportunities for them to connect with each other and to improve the overall business climate.

Ted Wind: That's incredible. Great pitch. And obviously, a lot of our listeners at home are chambers from a broad range of sizes. from the big ones all the way down to the small little local operations of just one person. As a statewide chamber, how does your membership and mission differ from local chambers a lot of our listeners run?

Bob Thomas: Sure. I think that we're very complementary to the rest of the chamber ecosystem, particularly in Michigan. So when we work with organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce on federal legislation or on factors that impact Michigan at the federal level, we're very favorable and complementary with each other. Then at the state level, we try to partner with as many local chambers and other trade and professional associations related to the business community in a federation model.

So recognizing that we all have our own members, our own missions and directions, what we're trying to accomplish with our constituencies, but we have a commonality in terms of what an end goal might look like for advocacy. And so,, we work with a lot of those folks on coalitions and pulling together,, resources in order to make change. And then at the local level, we try and support our partners in their communities by providing resources or programs and services or even just knowledge share about what's happening at the state level that they can apply in their local communities.

So where our local and even our ethnic chambers that represent their communities, they're looking for resources or information that they can share with their businesses that show that they're connected to a larger ecosystem and how they're able to make change around the state. So I feel like all of our different levels have a different focus area, but they all work complementary together to improve the overall positions for businesses.

Ted Wind: 100%. And as far as the kind of team size of your chamber, could you give us a little bit of glimpse into how large the team is in the operation?

Bob Thomas: Yep. The Michigan Chamber has about 25 full-time staff and then another half a dozen or so part-time staff. Uh the bulk of our staff certainly support our lobbying and advocacy efforts and then also our sales team. So, who are the folks who are engaging with businesses around the state and having conversations about how they can get involved in the process? Uh, and then I get to lead our operations team.

Ted Wind: That's incredible. And obviously, your role at the chamber has taken a lot of different forms over the years. You joined the Michigan Chamber all the way back in 1997. That's nearly three decades in the building. How does an advertising and PR grad from Grand Valley State end up making a whole career as a chamber leader?

Bob Thomas: Gosh, you're dusting off all the cobwebs. But,, yeah, I didn't know what a chamber did when I applied for the position. In fact, that was one of the first questions I asked in my interviews. What is a chamber of commerce? which nowadays would be 100% unacceptable with all the resources you have available to research what a chamber does. But back then I came in very green as a project coordinator. So all the twists and turns that I've seen through my three decades here at the chamber have I think given me a lot of perspective about what it means to support the business community. And it's it's very different.

And even when I talked to chamber leaders when I first started, what they were aiming for in their 30 years prior to me joining the chamber had some twists and turns. you know, between economic factors,, social factors, technology, just the changing nature of politics and the economy have all created amazing opportunities for chambers to be at the center of a lot of community-facing decisions that really it makes a difference.

A chamber is the only organization I think that can't be replaced in a community because of their touch on all the different factors whether that's jobs or the nonprofit community, education community, government, all those folks rely on the chamber for information and to help make changes and respond to new environmental factors.

Ted Wind: Mhm. And as far as your personal story, we always love to ask chamber leaders, you know, what's your why for being part of the chamber? Was there a moment when everything clicked and you realized like, wow, I really, really want to do this work or a specific time that happened?

Bob Thomas: Yeah, I probably I mean, when I was going to college, I was thinking about what I wanted to do when I grew up. And I always knew that I wanted to have some space where I affected the success of the business community. And in my mind, that was going to be small business. When I started at the chamber, I worked on a leadership program and an education reform project. And that's when I started to get a flavor for what a chamber could do. And it probably wasn't until 3 or four years later when I was exposed to the US Chambers Institute for Organization Management program that I figured out like I hit the jackpot. This is an industry that checks all of my boxes. It's mission focused.

It touches all those different audiences. It helps businesses where they need it most. And you know, I just get a lot of personal satisfaction out of knowing that what we do at the state chamber to the local chamber level can make a big difference in the success of a small or medium-sized business. And then when I started working with the Michigan Association of Chamber Professionals and helping our local chambers around the state, it became even more evident because they're my real heroes. what they do every day in their communities to touch Main Street and to have that impact on what makes a community vibrant.

That's my big why now is how do we capture all of those resources in order to make our overall communities better places for people to do business.

Ted Wind: And I think that you're teeing me up really nicely here, Bob, for the next question here. you know, with all of those resources that you're working with, the other main street organizations and smaller chambers that you work with, a big part of your role is in your title. Your title isn't just COO, it's COO and integrator. That's not a common word you see on a chamber leader business card typically. What is an integrator and why did the Michigan Chamber decide it needed one?

Bob Thomas: So the integrator part of my position relates to the Michigan Chamber's adoption of the entrepreneurial operating system EOS which is based on a book called Traction by Gino Wickman who happens to be a Michigan native. So, extra bonus,

Ted Wind: great book, great book.

Bob Thomas: But the integrator part of my job is to integrate our CEO's vision for where the organization should be going with all the systems and resources that the rest of the organization needs in order to execute that vision. And the integrator is kind of the lynch pin or the hub within the organization to capture vision and apply resources in order to fulfill that vision. So that's where the integrator part comes. Um we adopted EOS just before the pandemic as a way for us to help create focus in our organization. Chambers can do a lot of different things and we were guilty of that 100%.

But the discipline that we got from EOS helped create a focus area for us for us to really identify what we're really good at and successful at and apply those resources more intentionally.

Ted Wind: Mhm. Mhm. And a big part of that EOS system is, you know, identifying what in your current system before implementing EOS is, you know, maybe breaking down or not working as well as it should be. What was breaking down before the chamber ran on a formal system?

Bob Thomas: So,, like I said, chambers can do lots of different things and we were we have a service corporation, a for-profit entity. We have a foundation. We have up to 10 political programs underneath our roof. And we were constantly getting asked to do lots of different projects. Um support this community effort, participate in this legislative initiative, develop this project. And we wanted to be able to say yes to all those things, but it just didn't make any sense. It straps our resources. It makes us less effective.

there's competing priorities within the organization and so EOS at least gave us the tools and the language to share with each other what was most important as an organization give us a framework to be able to say no and then also to identify what is a strategy that would make us even more effective and help us grow more resources to help our members and so prior to EOS we were just running in a bunch of different directions our former CEO said we had a dozen generals all kind of running their own war and under EOS we're all facing the same direction hopefully pulling with the same amount of weight in order for us to develop traction and then create that flywheel that creates more success and you know we're not perfect we're better than we were but it's an evolution as you continue to have those meetings every year to develop your annual goals goals and your strategy to figure out what is the vision that you're trying to achieve and then apply the resources to be successful.

Ted Wind: 100%. And could you maybe walk us through what running the chamber like a business actually looks like week to week, the business planning, the scorecards, the accountability.

Bob Thomas: Sure. So for those unfamiliar with EOS, it focuses on six components and it has tools that help your business and it is it's intended for a small family-owned business.

it was the origins but we've figured out through a modeling with other chambers like the Michigan West Coast Chamber and the Grand Rapids Chamber who brought it to our attention how to take those tools and apply it to a chamber setting and so for us the board sits in an owner seat and they're the ones who tell us you know ultimately what they're looking for as a return on their investment and then our CEO is our vision visionary he's the one who looks over the horizon identifies who the key stakeholders are who are the people that we need to be engaged with in order to move that vision forward and then I as the integrator bring in the rest of the tools so we're very much focused on data so we have a weekly scorecard where we keep track of all of our important numbers whether that's sales number of members number of drops number of events that we've had what our open rates are for newsletters, like really pulling together all those data pieces in a scorecard.

So, you've got a dashboard to say whether or not you're on track or off track. And then we meet quarterly to set goals called rocks. Uh and that's based on a Stephen Covey principle that if you focus on if you have an empty jar and you are able to fill it with anything, fill it with your large rocks first because you'll make sure that they fit and then all the other things the pebbles and sand your daily work will fit in around all of those things. But if you focus on all the daily busy activity, you won't really have time for the rocks because you fill your jar up with sand first and the rocks don't fit.

So, that's a really core discipline here is you focus on 90-day segments that feed into an annual plan. What are your goals? And then how are you moving the needle towards those things? So, that factors into a weekly L10 meeting that we have, a level 10 meeting that says if you're firing on all cylinders, you should be able to rate this meeting a 10. You could be in a lot of meetings throughout the week, but this is the most important one because we're going to talk about what's important to everybody in the organization. Where are you in your programming or completing your rocks? What are your numbers?

And then what issues are you experiencing that are keeping us from being successful or what opportunities are on the table that we should be taking advantage of to get us to our strategy faster? And so then we spend a lot of time talking through those things. And so through that constant communication discipline of goal setting, identifying problems and solving them once and for all, you're not wasting the time that you would otherwise be chasing cats or answering everybody's requests. Uh you're very much focused on what is the mission of the chamber and what are the resources we need to do to apply in order to complete that mission.

And so I wouldn't say it's running it like a business as much as it is just being really mission focused and identifying who you are and what you want to be and applying the resources to get those done. So it really is a system that applies to nonprofits. It could apply to schools, government to some degree. Uh I think it's most effective for businesses because they don't have the extra layers of bureaucracy to get things done and we just figured out through our association framework how to make it work for us and it's been a game changer. It's been very helpful to keep us focused on what's most important for our members.

Ted Wind: That's incredible. And a lot of the things that you talked about there, the meetings, the planning docs, the scorecards, a lot of that sounds really internal. Where do members actually feel the difference when a chamber starts to run this way?

Bob Thomas: So hopefully members feel it because they're feeling the impact of those resources being applied more intentionally. So when we talk about our newsletter, for example, we want to make sure that we're feeding them information that's most important to them and not a junk drawer full of a bunch of different products and services that we were guilty of trying to set up for them as non-dues revenue for us. By flipping the script, now we're focused on what is important to them. where are they seeing the value as our customer and then trying to tee up all of those resources to benefit them. So it really did change the focus on give us more money to how can we serve you better.

So I think that's where members would feel the greatest impact is that it'll be more focused and more intentional of a communication to their space. We've also had to identify core values and a framework for what does the chamber way, the Michigan chamber way feel like to our members and customers. And I would say that's probably the hardest part is you want to be a lot of things to a lot of different people. And when you really settle in on what your core value is, it's not going to resonate with everybody. But that means hopefully you are connecting with the right people in the right ways that creates enough support for you to accomplish your mission.

And so the members that are in alignment with us on what those core values are who we think are our ideal members are the ones who are going to feel a lot of value. And then the members that maybe are only looking for a discount on their insurance program or they're looking for, you know, a quick networking opportunity might not be a good match for us, but they would be good for another chamber of commerce. And so they're going to feel a different experience because our core value isn't aligned in that way. So, I think that's where EOS has helped us be more intentional about who we're trying to help and how we're trying to help them and that we can't be all things to all people all the time.

Ted Wind: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And one of the things you touched on there was about how there was maybe a few events or offerings or programs that you guys decided to cut out after implementing the system. Could you maybe give a specific example of, you know, what one of those offerings were and what you replaced it with?

Bob Thomas: Sure. So, as a statewide organization, it's very difficult for us to be in lots of places. Michigan is a big state. If you went from the very western tip all the way down to the most southeastern tip, you'd be all the way to Florida from Michigan. So, that's a lot of area for us to cover. And so it's difficult for us for example then to hold events specifically events focused on networking or on building connections at least in a an efficient way. We're going to attempt to be more intimate and more intentional meeting with our members in this upcoming year in a regional way, but it's hard for us to be in all the places, right?

So we went from a very busy large statewide signature event strategy into a more regional approach strategy. It's just very difficult for us to have a large thousand person event in only a handful of places around the state when we serve, you know, the entire or the entire state geography where a local chamber because of their geography has a lot more impact to be able to be closer and to create more meaningful connections in their communities. And so that's where we notice our unique differences are, you know, they're varied between the two of us. And so that's an example of something we just had to change in order to be most effective for what we do.

Some other things,, I mentioned a junk drawer. There was a time through our service corporation where we would just lash on to every single discount program available thinking that was going to add value to a membership. But my friend Kyle Sexton says, you know, if you're only offering a bunch of features that nobody takes advantage of, they're not really benefits. it's just a list of stuff. And so we were able to whittle down a lot of, you know, revenue generating activity because it wasn't generating enough and it was creating a lack of focus for us that we just stopped selling stuff for the purpose of selling stuff.

What I did identify in exchange though was our local chamber partners could very much take advantage of some of those products and services in a more meaningful way because their members are looking for more of a discount or a value proposition that helps them run their business operationally. And so then we just pass those items down to our local chambers and partner with them on revenue share and help them be more successful. So now we're just broadening the pie for everybody and trying to find the right channel for the right tool.

Ted Wind: I love that. And I think you touched on something interesting there that also ties into another big piece of your work, Bob. So, for those of you that don't know, obviously the Michigan Chamber is the large statewide chamber in the state of Michigan, but Bob also has another kind of bird's eye view vantage point through his work directing the Michigan Association of Chamber Professionals, which supports chamber pros all across Michigan. From that seat, what separates the best-run chambers from the ones that struggled?

Bob Thomas: I think the chambers that are best run in Michigan and we've got a ton of them. I'm going to tell you right now. So, this is we're talking in the end of July 2026 and at ACCE's convention last week, we had a winner in the Chamber of the Year category 2 with the Jackson Chamber and then a finalist with the Howell Chamber. And they're coming on the heels of a winner last year from the Michigan West Coast Chamber. same category. So, I feel like we're just very rich in successful chambers, but those chambers are different because they've created a lane or an opportunity for leadership. So, they're not trying to be all the things to all the people.

They're not trying to hold 100 different events for the sake of community building. they're really commanding resources and leaving room for their members to have a vision for what their community could be. And so I think my advice for any chamber that's struggling and running the hamster wheel is stop, pause, pull together your stakeholders, and ask yourself some hard questions about what is the potential for your community and what are you doing to create space for leadership. You would be surprised when you're focusing on working on the business of building your community and supporting your businesses what comes to the surface.

And it's not going to be how many events can I hold, how many newsletters can I get out, how many hot deals can I run. It really is going to be on what is the catalyst I can set in motion that's going to make our community a better place to do business, for people to have a job, and to have good quality of life. And when you can start to answer those questions, then you know that you've arrived as a chamber.

Ted Wind: You have a lot of, you know, different programs that you run through the MACP, the CEO summit, the small chamber summit, and your kind of individual chamber chats. What do you see on the ground as far as the things chamber professionals are asking for help with the most right now in general?

Bob Thomas: Say, you know, our larger chambers, all the chambers to some degree, but our larger chambers are really looking for ways to harness vision and create a space that makes our communities amazing. Small chambers do that to a degree, but they're challenged with the number of resources. Certainly, our larger chambers have more businesses to work with, more resources to make that happen. And so, they're very much focused on bigger strategy. But I would say something that's common with all of our chambers of all sizes is how do we continue to do more with less?

How do we continue to engage businesses who are also trying to do more with less and can't necessarily get to an event or participate in the way that they could 30, 40 years ago? The fact of the matter is we're stuck behind our keyboard or on a shop floor or if you're a retailer, you're behind a cash register. You can't make it to all those different events. we're trying to do business in lots of different ways and so the value of the chamber there is through building community in other ways and harnessing that vision to improve just the overall quality of life.

So I would say some tips and tricks that they're looking for there are just you know what are the tools that are available to them through software or AI or new ways to engage people when people aren't available to be engaged. And unfortunately there's no silver bullet. Some of them are age-old. You just got to pick up the phone and rally the troops. And then others are more innovative. So through things like podcasts or creating new digital engagement tools, those are all strategies for us to what do the same thing which is just to build community.

Ted Wind: 100%. I'd be curious too because you're talking with a lot of chamber professionals in Michigan. Is there like one specific or maybe two specific common operational mistakes you see a lot of chambers, you know, maybe make more consistently or more frequently that maybe you could put the the notice out there and give chambers a tip for how to address that.

Bob Thomas: I think the number one biggest threat we have for chambers right now is that they don't think big enough or give themselves permission to dream beyond what they've always done. The second biggest threat is that we're not always in partnership with our board members or our volunteers and that's a huge opportunity for us to decide how we're going to work together in order to affect this change. So I would say through a regular board orientation, through regular communication, level setting on a regular basis and not taking for granted where you know your volunteers might be would help solve a lot of problems.

So if we can all sing out of the same choir book, I think you know our chambers would be better off. And so recognizing though you might have some conflicting visions, the probably the third thing that I would hear from chambers is when they talk about my chamber and my program or what I do. That's great. It's not your chamber. It's the chamber belongs to your members and you're there to help execute the vision. So helping chamber leaders recognize your servant leaders for your community and for your investors and helping them to achieve their vision will also get you a lot further.

Ted Wind: Really, really great advice there, Bob. I want to tie things back to where we started today talking about operating systems and bringing discipline into your chamber operations through kind of detailed planning. For the chamber leader listening who maybe like you said is running the hamster wheel or running on inbox and instincts as we like to say diagonal where do they start bringing this kind of discipline to their operations?

Bob Thomas: I would say the first thing any chamber who's feeling burnt out or stuck in a pattern that they can't get out of is just stop and take a clarity break. So take a blank sheet of paper or blank notepad. Give yourself 35 or 45 minutes to sit down and just say, "What is getting in my way for our chamber going to the next level?" and you'll start to uncover things that are just occupying your brain space. They could be solutions to problems that you deal with over and over again. If you know, if it were up to me, what could I change? And write it down. You'd be surprised. It is up to you. And you can change that. You just have to make the effort to do it.

So, I would say the first thing is just give yourself permission to stop, take a step back, and not feel like you've got to do all the things. The email will still be there tomorrow. the member calls are still going to be there tomorrow, but that time that you've taken to yourself will not be. And so that should uncover a lot of ahas about what to do next. And then the second thing would be then prioritize what is most important. You don't have to do everything to perfection. A lot of things just have to be done well enough to get you to the next level. And then you figure out where you command those rest of those resources. So contact your volunteers.

especially if you don't have a large staff. Your volunteers are your workforce. They're there to help achieve that vision. They want it just as bad as you do. And sometimes they've got more resources than you do in time or talent or dollars to help you achieve that vision. And so don't be afraid to ask them for help as well. I would say those are probably my top tips. Um it none of this is rocket science, right? We're not saving lives. We're not in the surgery room. We are making a difference. We are making a big impact. But you're not able to make a big impact if you aren't clear on what you want to do.

Ted Wind: 100%. And I think that is part of the reason why a major reason why the Michigan Chamber has been so successful. And I think why, as you mentioned, so many of the smaller chambers in Michigan as well have been so successful because they have this structure. they're able to take a deep breath, take a step back, look at things from this kind of like bird's eye perspective, what's going well, what isn't, and then focus on where they can address those things. So, I think 100% spot on today, Bob. This was absolutely incredible. I really appreciate you coming on to the show today. What I love about your story is that the chamber's product, as you mentioned, right, you're such a large chamber.

It's not just events and advocacy. It's the actual organization itself is a major product and a major value add that your chamber provides. And when the organization runs using that EOS operating system, every member really feels it. And I also think as business owners who are engaged with the chamber, they resonate with that message. If you want to learn more about the incredible work that the Michigan Chamber is doing, be sure to check out the links down below in the description. And to everyone listening at home, thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of Beyond the Ribbon Cut. And we'll catch you on the next episode. Thanks.